Anne-Laure Le Cunff, neuroscientist: “An individual’s value has been linked to their productivity; if you have a good job, you contribute to society.”

Anne-Laure Le Cunff (Paris, 35 years old) left her job at Google because it didn't make her happy. She founded a startup that failed and eventually closed. That didn't make her particularly happy either. But instead of wallowing in self-pity, Le Cunff decided to try a small experiment. "I'll write a short article on neuroscience every day for 100 working days," she told herself. Five years later, it could be said that the experiment went quite well. The articles became a newsletter , NessLabs, which eventually evolved into a platform. And now they've taken the form of a book. Micro-experiments: The Power of Trying, Failing, and Learning in a World That Demands Certainty (Editorial Conecta) summarizes not only her personal experience but also her research, focused on how the brain reacts to learning and curiosity. This doctor of psychology and neuroscience from King's College London advocates for burying the capitalist mantra of finding meaning in life through work, and argues that our vocations, in the plural, can be many and we should try them all, even if we don't make money from them. You might not succeed in Silicon Valley, but you might realize you can be a fantastic pizza maker , a Twilight fan fiction writer, or a knitting artist. And you can be very happy that way.

Question: You had a brilliant career at a large company. But one day you realized you weren't happy, so you left. Along the way, you learned a valuable lesson that you've now captured in a book. Your story is something of an essayist's hero's journey, isn't it?

Answer. [Laughs] Maybe. I think many of us go through a similar experience with our work. People change their lives when something happens that completely alters their beliefs. It's very easy to just keep going, settle into a routine, and think that if something goes wrong, we'll just change it later. But sometimes something happens. It could be an illness, a job loss, or a breakup. Something that forces you to make a decision. In my case, it was a health issue. And I realized how obsessed I was with success and my job. And well, after having changed my life, my only ambition with this book is to share this story, for other people to know about my hero's journey, so to speak. That way, maybe they can start making some of these changes in their lives without having to go through something as terrifying as what I went through.

Q. In your book, and in your life, you question the idea that we all have a single true vocation and that we must find our purpose.

R. Our society has become obsessed with the idea of ​​finding your one true purpose. Mentions of the phrase “finding your purpose” have increased in published books by more than 700% in the last two decades, which gives you an idea of ​​our obsession. But life isn’t that simple, and you can’t find meaning in it based on just one thing. Today, we live in a nonlinear world. The linear career path of previous generations, where you have one job and stay in it throughout your career, no longer exists. This is a fantasy today. If you become obsessed with that one true purpose, you limit your chances of success. You shouldn’t put all your eggs in one basket and say, “That’s it. That’s my life. That’s my identity. This is my purpose.” Because if that project or that career doesn’t work out, your world falls apart. That’s why I argue in the book that you don’t need to find one grand purpose. You can try many different things that give life meaning, and you can also change your mind. It's not a failure. It's growth.

Q. We're talking about purpose and life satisfaction, and somehow allusions to work and success creep into your discourse. Do you think we try to find meaning in life through our work ?

R. We live in an ultra-capitalist environment where, unfortunately, an individual's value has become tied to their productivity. We believe that if you have a good job, you contribute a lot to society, but this isn't true. You can have great value as a human being, as a partner, parent, friend, student… Society often makes us forget this, and social media only exacerbates the problem. Because now we have a huge leaderboard where we can compare people's success. A few generations ago, you lost touch with the people you grew up and studied with. But now, if you're in your 30s or 40s, you're aware of everything that's happened to everyone you've met at every stage of your life. That's not natural. Nor is it good. You can compare yourself to others, measure the success of everyone who's been in your life. And that creates a very harmful social comparison. I think that's why so many people associate their purpose with their work.

Q. From an evolutionary perspective, being useful to the group has always been crucial for survival. But could this idea have intensified with the rise of capitalism and social media?

R. Absolutely, from an evolutionary perspective, being useful has always been important. But back then, the tribe was much smaller, and everyone had exactly the same goals. We needed to find resources, we needed shelter, to stay safe, to support each other. To make sure the children were safe, and so on. So, in that way, it works very well. The same incentives make you useful, and the tribe, in turn, helps you. But the tribe wasn't meant to be millions of strangers on the internet shouting at you and bombarding you with messages telling you what you should do to be useful to society. The tribe wasn't meant to be one of these large corporations where you're easily replaceable. This is an example of the mismatch between our brains and the current environment; circumstances have changed, but we haven't.

Q. Let's talk about chronos and kairos . Why is it important to differentiate these two concepts instead of just talking about time?

R. We can't think about our mental health in today's world without talking about our relationship with time. And our relationship with time has become very one-dimensional, where it's just about seconds, minutes, and hours, and these little boxes on our calendar that we need to fill with as many things as possible. I was fascinated to discover that this isn't the only way we can define time. The ancient Greeks had two ways of thinking about time: Chronos , which is the quantitative definition of time. And Kairos , which is the best definition of time, the quality of time, the depth of time. It's the moment to watch a beautiful sunset, the moment to read a story to your child, when you're engrossed in a conversation with a friend and time just slips away. If we want to have greater well-being, but also greater creativity and, paradoxically, perhaps greater productivity in our lives without sacrificing our mental health, we need to make sure we have more Kairos moments in our lives and fewer Chronos moments.

P. That sounds great, but is it possible these days? I'd like to experiment more, enjoy more quality time, not be such a perfectionist… But I don't think my boss would be too keen on that idea.

R. That's precisely why the book is called "Micro Experiments," not "Big Experiments to Change Everything and Quit Your Job." And that's what I'm really arguing: that anyone can find a small experiment they can conduct. And when I talk about developing an experimental mindset and living an experimental life, I'm not saying you have to quit your job and change everything. I'm sure you can find a small space, a small part of your life that's more like a laboratory, where you experiment and try new things. That's what living and experimenting are all about.

Q. In this sense, how do you interpret the growing popularity of book clubs or pottery classes ?

R. I think we're exhausted by the digital world we live in. We're overconnected to an overwhelming, uninterrupted flow of information. We don't even have time to interpret and integrate the information we receive, which is often quite negative. Problems overwhelm us; we have no idea what to do on our own scale... Pottery, book clubs, or knitting and sewing workshops are a way to disconnect from the digital world and reconnect with the real world. Reconnect with yourself, with your own creativity and your own thoughts. They're also a way to meet other people and connect socially.

Q. When we adopt an experimental mindset, how does our brain respond?

R. Neuroscience shows us that, contrary to popular belief, neuroplasticity continues into adulthood. Many people think it only happens in childhood, but it continues into adulthood if you proactively strive to keep learning new things, experimenting, challenging yourself to try slightly different things so you can form those new neural pathways. So, conducting small experiments is a way to stay young. This daily practice of learning, this daily practice of really reinventing yourself—and when you have to reinvent yourself, you have to form new connections—that's how you keep your brain plastic. That's why there's tons of research on lifelong learning. And we know that lifelong learning is actually one of the best ways to keep age-related neurological problems at bay. That's also why I think experimentation has so many benefits beyond the short-term discovery of what you like.

Q. These small experiments can grow into big ones over time. Yours was a newsletter, Ness Labs, which now has 70,000 subscribers and has led to this book.

R. Yes, it's my biggest experiment. This little experiment started five years ago, and the first version, the first iteration—because this is something I talk about too, isn't it?—the first version of an experiment doesn't have to be final. You can try different versions and keep experimenting. In the first version, I told myself, "I'll write a short article about neuroscience every day for 100 working days." So that was my experiment. At first, it was a little scary because English isn't my first language. I didn't consider myself an online writer, but I loved it so much that I decided to keep going, even though writing 100 articles in 100 working days was too intense. So in the following iterations, I thought about a few articles a week. And then I did another iteration. And now, in my current iteration, five years later, I write one article a week. And it's been an amazing way to find my tribe.

P. Five years later, having turned it into a job, he still talks about iterations and experimenting.

R. Absolutely, and I'll never abandon that mindset because I think it's what makes the journey so interesting. I don't have an end goal. If I had a perspective, I would always compare my current situation to the end goal in the future; I would never feel like it's enough, I would never feel like I'm working hard enough. So I'm focusing on learning in the moment and learning along the way. I also know that what I like today may be different from what I'd like in the future, which is my priority. It's very important to keep it as a series of experimental cycles and see where I end up.